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So... Any non believers out there?

Hi Just,  I think that there are some people who are clinging to this idea because they don’t want to account for how they conducted themselves later in life. They reject Christianity because the

Hi @just_checking, are you one of them? Hi @Nightwriter, I was a sacristan during my teenage life. I asked questions but were unanswered. Which made me not believe anymore. But now that I'm a gra

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Hi Just, 

I think that there are some people who are clinging to this idea because they don’t want to account for how they conducted themselves later in life. They reject Christianity because they failed to measure up to a moral standard. 

My father was an Atheist, he was the man who raised me. In all practicalities, he was a good man. 

When he was a young altar boy, his father died. The Rector of the Catholic school told him that in order for his father to go to heaven is a wad of cash  to fulfill his father’s safe passage . Dad didn’t have two dimes rubbed together because his siblings could barely eat anything at all . He declined and buried his father in a cheap coffin without the service. He left the church permanently. 

In the United States, most people don’t have a moral compass - whatever iota of wisdom that you’ve learned along the way is enough for you to survive. For me, Religion is  a sort of meditation to get through hard times. 

 

 

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Hi @just_checking, are you one of them?

Hi @Nightwriter, I was a sacristan during my teenage life. I asked questions but were unanswered. Which made me not believe anymore. But now that I'm a grandfather, I realized that it was unfair to base my faith on that priest that I interrogated. It was not fair. So I did my own research, I wanted to give Christianity a fair chance by defending it myself. I read books about it, not just the bible.

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USA is a Christian country that does not know how to share vaccines? Russia has no religion (according to map) but they have vaccine technology? Hinduism is taking a beating in India with the highest Covid fatalities. Brazil is fully Christian but they're fully infected as well.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Do Better said:

Hi @just_checking, are you one of them?

Hi @Nightwriter, I was a sacristan during my teenage life. I asked questions but were unanswered. Which made me not believe anymore. But now that I'm a grandfather, I realized that it was unfair to base my faith on that priest that I interrogated. It was not fair. So I did my own research, I wanted to give Christianity a fair chance by defending it myself. I read books about it, not just the bible.

I'm glad someone can relate from my father's experience. 

There was a young lady who was selling her medication ( Ritalin for her ADHD) to fellow students. One of her classmates reported it to the Principal, who was also the Rector of the school.

He called her to his office and demanded a confession. She of course, folded in fear and wrote down every kid involved with the drug.  The Police came and took her away. She got expelled and  she stayed in the clink for a month. 

Confessing to church is one thing but having  information shared from a confession and deliver it to the Police is another story.  I condemned with what the young lady had done but the sanctity of confession was violated.

 

Edited by Nightwriter
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On 4/29/2021 at 10:07 PM, Do Better said:

Hi @just_checking, are you one of them?

Hi @Nightwriter, I was a sacristan during my teenage life. I asked questions but were unanswered. Which made me not believe anymore. But now that I'm a grandfather, I realized that it was unfair to base my faith on that priest that I interrogated. It was not fair. So I did my own research, I wanted to give Christianity a fair chance by defending it myself. I read books about it, not just the bible.

Hi @Do Better, yes I am one. Family on both sides (Father and Mother) are all religious. I did try to believe specially during my elem to hs years. Heck I even went to a catholic college with a theology class every semester. But it really does not make sense to me. (Maybe because its meant to be that way?)

When I asked the question to them, why should I believe in "God" you will never get a logical answer. Usually it is for my "salvation", salvation for what? Many are already suffering, is God going to intervene to those who really need help? Right now only those who are helping are the ones who really care and understand what is going on.

Imagine in previous pandemics where in medical science was not yet existent. Did "God" intervene or helped cure the infected? I guess not. Did God intervene when Christianity was used as a tool to dominate and conquer territories which lead to again... Thousands or millions of innocents killed in "His name"?

Even our country was conquered by using religion.

There are many factual events that will make you question the existence of God. 

But the psychology and effects of religion in humanity are still rooted deep. That is because "God" is an easy way out to explain things that cannot be explained... YET

"God works in mysterious ways" is the most BS line that I hate on hearing. It just signifies that one does have the capacity or care to understand the world they are living in.

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We share some similar views.

Have you given it thought, that maybe your religious freedom was because of Christianity's flexible value system? In some religions they will persecute you if you denounce. I have not fully done research on this subtopic.

Sadly, you cannot engage religious people in an intellectual discussion on the internet. Maybe it's because faith and logic are on different sides of the spectrum.

There's are many scientists and engineers that I know who are extremely successful in their fields, can explain physics flawlessly, can do engineering error-free, etc. But, when the discussion is about faith they have this personality switch in an instant! From logical to faithful. Gladly, my colleagues here are the nice types. They will just ask not to discuss faith, ask to leave their beliefs alone, ask to change topics, will say they respect my beliefs and I should respect theirs, etc. Not the confrontational types.

Up to now I'm still peacefully looking for answers.

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13 minutes ago, Do Better said:

We share some similar views.

Have you given it thought, that maybe your religious freedom was because of Christianity's flexible value system? In some religions they will persecute you if you denounce. I have not fully done research on this subtopic.

Sadly, you cannot engage religious people in an intellectual discussion on the internet. Maybe it's because faith and logic are on different sides of the spectrum.

There's are many scientists and engineers that I know who are extremely successful in their fields, can explain physics flawlessly, can do engineering error-free, etc. But, when the discussion is about faith they have this personality switch in an instant! From logical to faithful. Gladly, my colleagues here are the nice types. They will just ask not to discuss faith, ask to leave their beliefs alone, ask to change topics, will say they respect my beliefs and I should respect theirs, etc. Not the confrontational types.

Up to now I'm still peacefully looking for answers.

Its so flexible that you have Catholicism, Christianity, Protestants, etc... But they all believe in one God, I am not sure though if they have the same bible versions. And they still bicker each other whose version of worship is the correct one.

In the other religion if you reject, i think depending on the law they are following. Yes you are punishable by death.

I guess my interpretation why they "switch" is because of the term

"Attack on my Faith"

That faith is the base or cornerstone of their individuality. Question and take that away, and it will crumble.

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  • Do Better changed the title to Atheism and the Search for God During the Pandemic
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The "knowledgeable" ones are fierce. The "lukewarm" ones are the ones who don't really have a grasp of their beliefs, they are the ones who will want to excuse themselves from an intellectual conversation. That's why it's difficult to have a friendly debate because of lack of participants.

The atheists and the agnostics are the chill ones coz they really don't have nothing to prove. It's like going down a mountain.

But the faithful ones are the ones climbing mountains, pushing a boulder upwards. And, the more pain the pandemic brings, the bigger the boulder becomes. This challenge and hardship of maintaining the faith sometimes becomes the drama, becomes the cry of Balintawak, becomes the Mendiola of the faithful, becomes the life definition of some people. They fall in love with the notion of being a devout believer. Neglecting the logic of it all.

What kind of God kills first borns? (Old testament)

What kind of God allows a Pandemic? (current time)

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God (Christian) loves us so much that he has given us freedom of choice, freedom to do what we want. We have brought the pandemic onto ourselves and our fellow human beings. The Pandemic is not the work of God. It is the result of the freedom God has given us.

If I gave you a school ruler and asked you to measure your table it would be an easy task, but if I asked you to measure your house using a school ruler it would be very difficult. But if I gave you a carpenters tape measure you can easily measure your house. With the same tape measure I will ask you to measure Malacanang Palace, that would again be a difficult task. But if I gave you a laser measuring tool measuring the palace would be easy. I now ask you to measure the land area of the Philippines using a laser measuring tool - difficult. But when you use Google Earth it becomes easy... and so on and so forth... my point is, when you measure something you have to use the correct tool.

Let us now measure God. Let us now understand God's plan. What do we use? Do we use our brain as a tool? We can't even figure out how to travel at the speed of light, we haven't decoded the human genome, we haven't calculated the mass of the universe... etc. How do we comprehend God?

We are like ants, we can only see one foot away. We cannot see there's cake inside the ref. We are like birds in Manila, we can't see what's in Davao. We are like pigs in the slaughterhouse, we cannot see what's in store for us in the next few months. We are like chicken in the hen house... we have very limited vision. We cannot see. We cannot understand. We cannot comprehend God.

The analogy above is my original concept. To further illustrate this concept allow me to bring in the concept of time and numbers. The human lifespan is around 80 years. How do we comprehend a being who is infinite? I'm sure everyone watched Marvel movies, infinite timelines, infinite universes... and yet we are here, crying because of covid.

God is infinite. If we all die right now. It is probably his plan. We will never understand his point of view because of our limits. Brain limit. Lifespan limit. Dimentional limit.

How do you explain color to a blind person?

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3 hours ago, Do Better said:

God (Christian) loves us so much that he has given us freedom of choice, freedom to do what we want. We have brought the pandemic onto ourselves and our fellow human beings. The Pandemic is not the work of God. It is the result of the freedom God has given us.

If I gave you a school ruler and asked you to measure your table it would be an easy task, but if I asked you to measure your house using a school ruler it would be very difficult. But if I gave you a carpenters tape measure you can easily measure your house. With the same tape measure I will ask you to measure Malacanang Palace, that would again be a difficult task. But if I gave you a laser measuring tool measuring the palace would be easy. I now ask you to measure the land area of the Philippines using a laser measuring tool - difficult. But when you use Google Earth it becomes easy... and so on and so forth... my point is, when you measure something you have to use the correct tool.

Let us now measure God. Let us now understand God's plan. What do we use? Do we use our brain as a tool? We can't even figure out how to travel at the speed of light, we haven't decoded the human genome, we haven't calculated the mass of the universe... etc. How do we comprehend God?

We are like ants, we can only see one foot away. We cannot see there's cake inside the ref. We are like birds in Manila, we can't see what's in Davao. We are like pigs in the slaughterhouse, we cannot see what's in store for us in the next few months. We are like chicken in the hen house... we have very limited vision. We cannot see. We cannot understand. We cannot comprehend God.

The analogy above is my original concept. To further illustrate this concept allow me to bring in the concept of time and numbers. The human lifespan is around 80 years. How do we comprehend a being who is infinite? I'm sure everyone watched Marvel movies, infinite timelines, infinite universes... and yet we are here, crying because of covid.

God is infinite. If we all die right now. It is probably his plan. We will never understand his point of view because of our limits. Brain limit. Lifespan limit. Dimentional limit.

How do you explain color to a blind person?

They say you can explain a color to a blind person based on feeling the color gives you.

But as quoted by Neil deGrasse Tyson

Our five senses even interfere with sensible answers to stupid metaphysical questions like, “If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound?” My best answer is, “How do you know it fell?” But that just gets people angry. So I offer a senseless analogy, “Q: If you can’t smell the carbon monoxide, then how do you know it’s there? A: You drop dead.” In modern times, if the sole measure of what’s out there flows from your five senses then a precarious life awaits you.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
 
So our primitive senses will not be enough to comprehend if lets say "God" appears in front of us, If there is indeed one.
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